EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF THE UNITED STATES + + + + + SUBSAHARAN AFRICA ADVISORY COMMITTEE + + + + + MEETING + + + + + MONDAY JUNE 13, 2022 + + + + + The SubSaharan Africa Advisory Committee convened in Room 1126 at 811 Vermont Avenue NW, Washington, DC, at 10:00 a.m. EDT, Jim O'Brien, Chair, presiding. SUBSAHARAN AFRICA ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS JIM O'BRIEN, Chair LYNEE BRADLEY* REBECCA ENONCHONG* LARS HICKEY UZODINMA IWEALA MIMA S. NEDELCOVYCH* E.E. OKPA PAUL SULLIVAN* SOLA YOMIAJAYI* ELIAS ZEWDE EXIM BOARD MEMBERS RETA JO LEWIS, President and Chair, EXIM JUDITH PRYOR, Vice Chair SPENCER BACHUS, III, Director* STAFF PRESENT CASSIE ROWLANDS, Director, Climate Outreach and Engagement* CHRIS VAN ES, Senior Vice President, Communications and External Engagement REBECCA WEBB, Chief of Staff ALSO PRESENT HEIDI HEITKAMP, EXIM Advisory Committee Chair BARBARA BUCHNER, Global Managing Director, Climate Policy Institute RODNEY FERGUSON, President and CEO, Winrock International KEVIN SMITH, CEO, Lightsourcebp US* DEVON HYVER, Director, Sales and Market Development EMEAI, Plug Power* NAVA AKKINENI, Vice President - Emerging Markets, Nextracker RICHARD SAINES, ONM, Partner, Pollination Capital* JOHN MORTON, Climate Counselor, U.S. Department of the Treasury* *Present via Video Teleconference CONTENTS Opening Remarks Jim O'Brien, Chair, EXIM Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory Board 5 Opening Remarks Judith Pryor, Vice Chair 6 Opening Remarks by Spencer Bachus, Director 10 Welcome Remarks Reta Jo Lewis, President and Chair, EXIM 11 Presenters: Dr. Barbara Buchner, Global Managing Director, Climate Policy Initiative 19 Rodney Ferguson, President and CEO, Winrock International 24 Non-Western Competition and Typical Tender Process for Renewable Energy Projects Kevin Smith, CEO Lightsourcebp US 34 Hydrogen and New Technology Projects Devon Hyver, Director of Sales and Market Development, EMEAI, Plug Power 40 Additionally in non-U.S. Projects and Carbon Net Zero Opportunities Richard Saines, ONM, Partner, Pollination Capital 58 EXIM Support for Renewable Energy Cassie Rowlands, Director, Climate Outreach and Engagement, EXIM 64 Craig O'Connor, Renewable Energy and Environmental Exports Officer, EXIM 69 Committee Discussion Jim O'Brien, Chair, EXIM Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory Committee 72 U.S. Government Support for Renewable Energy in Africa John Morton, Climate Counselor, U.S. Department of Treasury 99 Adjournment Jim O'Brien, Chair, EXIM Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory Committee 108 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 10:04 a.m. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Okay. Welcome everyone to the Sub-Saharan Advisory Committee for EXIM Bank. This meeting is on renewable energy and alternative technology. And I want to thank all the committee members for joining me today, whether personally or in hybrid. It's one of the great parts about being hybrid is we can make sure we get all of the committee members no matter where they are to attend the meeting. And I also want to thank the great group of speakers we have who've agreed to join and spend time with us talking about things that they find important for renewable energy and alternative technology. So we all know the broad statistics, 20 percent of the world's population and only 4 percent is electricity, hundreds of millions without access to electricity. Electricity demands expected to triple over the next ten years. The focus of the meeting today however is not on Africa-wide statistics. The focus of the meeting today is on projects -- renewable and alternative energy projects. And increasing U.S. exports to grow those projects so that the quickly growing consumer sector that needs more energy in Africa gets that energy from renewable energy and alternative energy sources. And that's our focus today. You'll see from looking at the agenda, we have about a half day's worth of discussion, maybe a full day. But we have two hours to do it, which I guess is overly ambitious. But we'll try and stick to our specific times and I hope we can abide by that because we have a lot of speakers. And I want to make sure we include everybody in the discussion. When Chair Lewis joins, we'll ask her to say a few words. But we have the great pleasure of having both Vice Chair Pryor and Director Bachus for this. And perhaps Vice Chair Pryor, you wan to say a couple of words and then Director Bachus, if I could ask you to welcome the members as well. VICE CHAIR PRYOR: Sure. I'd love to. Thanks, Jim. It just seems so funny that about one year ago this month, we had our first meeting of the new Sub-Saharan Advisory Committee. And I was so looking forward to being able to work with you and the Senate had other plans for me, which included about eight months of waiting for a vote. So I'm sorry that I didn't get to work more closely with all of you. But I knew that you were certainly under good stewardship. And just the wealth of experience and information and knowledge and practical engagement that this whole group has brought to this committee, I can't thank you enough for all that you've done. We need to grow our business around the world, but particularly on the African continent. And I say this all the time and those that know me are probably tired of hearing it. But six of ten of the fastest growing economies, a young generation of youth who all want to get to work, versioning middle class. There's so much that we can do together. And of course, you know, Africans, they're going to need to continue to grow their economies and fight poverty and improve health and well being amongst their communities. And of course, leapfrog to clean energy much like they did with mobile telecom. So it's a good possibility and EXIM stands ready to help with your guidance and expertise to lead the way. So thank you -- Thank you for your participation throughout this year. And for bringing to the table, this broad industry expertise and extensive knowledge of the markets on the continent. Because at the end of the day, it's your efforts; the conversation, the engagement, and ultimately the recommendations that will help inform EXIM management about how to improve upon our record on the ground in Africa. And with that, I look forward to getting to know those here better over our lunch. And to keeping in touch with those of you on the screen. And I'm glad to say that Chairman Lewis has joined us. So I'll stop there and just say once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart. This region means the world to me. I've got quite a bit of experience and I've worked on the continent for over 20 years. And I just know that with your guidance we can -- we can make things happen, so thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Excellent. Thank you so much. We'll turn if it's okay, Director Bachus to Chair Lewis who's been with us. And Chair Lewis, very busy indeed. I was laughing. I get the EXIM news reports. I figure at some point I'll put a pin on the map for all the places you've done outreach and see where it goes. And as I note, your news release, as you say, it's a new day at EXIM. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. CHAIR LEWIS: No. Thank you very much. Has Director Bachus spoke yet? Okay, Director Bachus, why don't you go ahead while I get situated -- CHAIR O'BRIEN: Director Bachus. CHAIR LEWIS: -- and bring your remarks. And then I'll come right afterwards. DIRECTOR BACHUS: Well, thank you. First of all, Jim O'Brien, I want to compliment you on your leadership of the committee. And you know, I'm glad that Baker McKenzie is loaning you to the committee. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you, Director Bachus. DIRECTOR BACHUS: Because of the situation in Ukraine that we've all been following, I think day to day, we hear the dependency of Europe on falling gas and also the need to develop alternative energy. So I think this meeting is very timely with current events and it's something I look forward to. And I appreciate each and every one of you serving on the committee. And with that, Madam Chair, if you're ready. CHAIR LEWIS: Yes, sir. DIRECTOR BACHUS: Welcome to the meeting. CHAIR LEWIS: Thank you, Congressman. I'm glad to see you here. I'm glad you're feeling better. Director Pryor, I'm glad to see you and all the reporting we learned from the Summit of the Americas. I think all of this -- the work that we're doing in all these regions are making a very nice integrated approach as to how EXIM is looking at, as they say, the new day at EXIM. And so Chairman O'Brien, I really appreciate the leadership that you've done for this committee. And I really want to thank all of you here for the work that you have done. I've had a chance to meet a number of you. I know I will continue to meet you and then I know we're having lunch with the full committee -- with Heidi Heitkamp, the Senator and her team. I know she's going to join us at some point today. She and I have already talked about the recommendations that you have that's forthcoming. And I'm really excited about your leadership, Chair O'Brien in the work of all of you here. What I can tell you is that it's nice to be able to have an in-person meeting. It's also nice, I'm sure Chris will be telling you all about the in-person annual conference that we're going to hold at the end of the year. It's going to be the first one we've done, I guess in a couple of years. That's going to be December 13th. It's going to be at the Omni Shoreham in Washington. I'm excited to let you know that in the meetings that I've done at the Berne Union in Turkey and most recently in Lisbon, we just came back a couple days ago, people are very excited, not only about the conference, but every ECA that has spoken with me and some of our largest bankers and others are talking about the work that they're doing in Sub-Saharan Africa. So we look at this as the fact that it's exciting to be here in administration that very much supports Sub-Saharan Africa. And that as the President is trying to look at working in a whole -- for all of us to work in a whole of government approach, I am constantly in meetings with the National Security Council, the Economic Council in the White House, and the State Department and Prosper Africa and a whole host of others, especially our bankers and our major organizations like the Chamber and others that are supporting this work. So many of you who have done this work over the years and as they say been toiling in the vineyard, it's good to see EXIM Bank in the game because we have a mandate as many of you to make more financing available on Sub-Saharan Africa. And we hope to try to live up to that. We can live up to that if we have more ambassadors like yourselves out there asking people to think about EXIM, to come to EXIM, to use EXIM, and to let them know the we are serious about Sub-Saharan Africa. My very first event was with -- my very first meeting with an international leader was the Prime Minister of Cote d'Ivoire where I pledged to him that he could tell his colleagues that there is a welcoming hand at the EXIM Bank. I think he did that because so many of -- whether it's the Prime Minister or Minister in Finance, and the most recent one, the Minister of Nigeria at some meetings that Chris and others and I had in Zurich, they are making their ways because the sovereigns want to talk directly to EXIM Bank. And that is something that I find exceptionally refreshing in the sense that one, I've made a pledge to go to the continent. And I'm actually going to the continent soon, having been invited once and having been invited actually three times to go to the continent within the next several months on some work that we're going to be doing in Nigeria, some work that we're going to be doing with some international banks, and some work that we're going to be doing with some sovereigns. So I think you will hear more about that. I'm excited that to my left, we've added a new Chief of Staff, Rebecca Webb who's actually starting her second week on the job. And Rebecca has over 25 years of international foreign affairs experience and 14 years of financial consulting in the domestic and international arena. She, along with the EXIM team is going to be playing a very key role here as we attempt to advance and achieve our strategic priorities in Sub-Saharan Africa and throughout the world. I'm also excited. I think we told you on a number of your meetings that you had, that we have an internal working team. Rick Angiuoni who you all have worked with for years is now going to be shored up by our Deputy General Council, Lark, as well as Hazeen Ashby, our Deputy Chief of Staff. The three of them will form the liaison team working directly with Chris Van Es and his team on outreach on Sub-Saharan Africa. There are so many projects that I have heard from the sovereigns that African countries are going to be working on, especially in the areas of where it's very large iconic infrastructure projects, as well as renewables is areas that they are very interested in working with EXIM Bank. The reason that these sovereigns, I believe, have come into EXIM Bank is because they are looking at America and our big companies and others, the small business diaspora community as a major alternative to the strategic competition with China. It's very, very clear when they speak with me as to why they're coming to America, not only do they know we're the best and provide the best services and product, they know that our values are very much in line with them. So we have several projects and programs that we have been talking to them about. And I'm sure you're going to be hearing more while you're here around environmental exports, around our China and Transformational Export Program and Make More in America Initiative. I think the work that you're doing is exceptionally important. I am very excited about the Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory Committee. I have worked throughout my entire career on work within Sub-Saharan Africa even when I was most recently at the German Marshall Fund doing work on the continent. And so we are as they say, could not be more serious about our outreach and about making more available from a transactional perspective. Not just more words and talk, but they want to see transactions. And that is one of the reasons why I've also met with the African ECA banks. There have been several of them who have made their way to our door. There's several of them that we're going to also be doing MOUs with so that we can up our relationship. And I think what's been really important is that we have several of the big banks on the continent who want to have MOUs with us. And we're actually, I think in the process of presenting a program with our banks who can have master agreements and that we can offer it up. And then finally, we are working in partnership as I said at the beginning of my talk was that with the White House, with the State Department on the outreach, with USAID and others on the outreach that we're going to be doing around Sub-Saharan Africa. And so I look forward to working with you. Navin has brought us a very major opportunity. We are working very closely on that in the renewable space. And I think you will continue to hear more about that. I look forward to being with you today. Thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you so much, Chair Lewis. I know members of the committee have said how important it is for the Chair and board members to travel to the continent in order to develop those relationships. And that's just so indicative of the value of the time and effort that you all spent on it. It's so helpful. Our first presenters today are also EXIM Advisory Committee colleagues who are on EXIMs Council on Climate Change. I'm going to introduce them both briefly and then I'll ask them to present. Dr. Barbara Buchner is Global Managing Director of the Climate Policy Initiative and Executive Director of its Climate Finance Program. I'll add that I've regularly used the publications that CPI has done to help inform my thinking on renewable energy and emerging markets. It's really terrifically great work. Our second advisory colleague is Rodney Ferguson who is President and CEO of Winrock International. Much like our meeting today here is focused on getting projects done, that's what Winrock does. They have about 140 development projects around the world with a $100 million budget. And Winrock does just great work in the markets that we care about. So Barbara and Rodney, whichever order you prefer. DR. BUCHNER: Thank you so much for having me here. It's a true pleasure being here and I think just the right way to start the day today, which will continue on advisory committee meetings. But I think Africa, as everyone knows, is critical in ensuring the future of our planet. And I think what we think is the climate change more generally is something that is a challenge to all of us, but it's a huge opportunity as well. So I think what I'd like to focus on very briefly before handing over to Rodney is just what we have done as part of the Chair's Council on Climate Change really thinking about how climate action actually can become a huge investment opportunity for EXIM. And in this way really help also create American jobs, help really make sure that the companies and technologies are developed here in the U.S. can really kind of help the continent to strive. And in the same way also like address climate change, which I think as an Austrian who has just like moved to the U.S. in California -- to California, I've been like actually witnessing myself that, you know, we see the impacts of climate change already with like some of the wild fires that we've been witnessing there. Again, so I think we have been in the Council on Climate Change really thinking about there is ways that EXIM could build on its experience and really kind of expand the work in this area. I think what we have seen is that at the moment, EXIM's portfolio is only kind of less than 2 percent is actually focused on environmental issues. So we see that this is like a real opportunity. And this year even more so, in Africa as we are going towards a very important international event that will be taking place in Sharm el-Sheikh later this year, the Conference of Parties, the 27th one, which is again, I think, an opportunity for all of us to think on how can we expand our work. So in the Council, we have been thinking about five areas of how we can expand EXIMs work and decrease its action space. We've had like five specific sub-committees that have helped to really develop a number of tangible recommendations that we believe will make EXIM more competitive in the overarching ecosystems. So I'd like to very briefly go through these areas. And then I'll hand over to Rodney to add on some specific projects and like giving some more flavors on the pipeline for EXIM to increase the data flow. So we've had -- first area that we've been looking at is like climate policy for EXIM. So really thinking about how can EXIM actually develop a specific climate action plan includes net zero targets, but also thinking about like much more about what -- you know, what is the definition of what counts as climate investment. And thinking about how can that then be operationalized within EXIMs overarching governance and strategy. We've also been thinking as a second part on how can we refine EXIMs existing policies to enable greater climate investment. And they're really thinking about like how can we actually make sure that we can allow EXIM to be really competitive for the market, matching or exceeding some of OECD's policies that are out there. The third area we've been looking into is thinking about transactional improvements and problematic recommendations for climate investment in this context. For example, just thinking about how we can improve some of the transactional terms and some of the conditions for climate-positive investments, but also thinking about how can we increase and improve the capacity of EXIM in this space. So really, I think human dimension I mentioned really thinking about like the right people in this agency I think is extremely important. The fourth one was around sector-specific recommendations to support climate investments and really thinking about how can we deepen the engagement in support of specific climate investments. And the final fifth one is around partnerships. And we've already heard from the opening remarks really the importance of this whole of government approach. I think really deepening partnerships in collaboration with other agencies, institutions, and organizations is just extremely important and will allow EXIM to use their resources even more catalytic and in a better way. So I think that's in a nutshell, the five areas that we've been working on. We have provided again, 14 tangible recommendations that we hope will inform EXIMs way forward and really creates the competitiveness. And use really EXIM-specific niche and mandates to strive on climate. And (indiscernible) again, we believe is a huge way for EXIM to become even more important than (indiscernible) go a little deeper in the specific deals in the pipeline that we have. MR. FERGUSON: Here we go. Thank you. Chairwoman Lewis and Chair O'Brien and Directors Pryor and Bachus, thank you for the opportunity to come and speak with you today. And thanks for the leadership of Chris Van Es who's been helping us organize ourselves and move all this forward. I also need to acknowledge several colleagues who have helped me develop comments which are far longer than I'm going to be able to provide today. So we're going to provide these to the committee in an organized fashion. But I'd like to thank my Board Chair, Jude Kearney who is managing partner of Asafo, an international law firm that does work in Africa and is based in Africa. And Bill Bumpers who is our former Chair who is retired Head of the Energy Practice at Baker Botts Law Firm and now sets on several boards including the Board for the Architecture for Redd Transactions, which is working to create a global tropic forest trading platform. As well as Bikash Pandey, the Head of Winrock's Clean Energy Practice. With my limited time, I wanted to start with three principles and then talk about some specific projects that was really sort of an amalgam of some of the recommendations that I received from my colleagues when I talked with them about this. One piece of advice, an axiom if you will, but we all know, but has been emphasized over and over and that is that in order to maximize the effectiveness of American clean energy exports, they have to be done in conjunction with adequate grid capacity in Africa. Because one of the dispiriting, disheartening things about energy projects in Africa is when you sell into -- to do a project and there's a lot of optimism. And then you discover after the fact that the fact is that the grid cannot take the energy that's being produced. And so being particularly sensitive to the grid capabilities that undergird export projects is crucial. It's crucial for all reasons, including the integrity of the projects, the relationship with the purchasers, and frankly the relationship with the U.S. tax payers to make sure that they're support of EXIM is being put to full use. And second is also axiomatic and that's storage. Everyone I talk to said, you know, any export projects needs to ensure not only adequate grid capacity, but adequate storage, particularly for wind and solar and hydrothermal. That is another problem that we face. Now that also is a problem that can be addressed by EXIM by supporting the export of grid development projects themselves, as well as storage projects. We're all familiar with the storage challenges. There's a global race akin to the space race. You might call it the battery race right now to create and develop better storage capacity. But in as much as we can support, exporting those technologies to Africa as they're developed, so we can concomitantly build storage capacity would be a fundament to making sure that these export projects are effective. And the third principle I would add, it's been mentioned already by the Chairwoman and others, the whole of government approach. We have projects, Prosper Africa, Power Africa, which are being supported by the U.S. Government that are devoted to these issues, particularly grid development. I would strongly encourage EXIM, as would everyone I talk to, to work closely with for example, to take one that we know about, USAID and the Power Africa Project to work closely with USAID to make sure that exports of American technology and materials and products and services are following in after the Power Africa work. It is the perfect example of left hand, right hand coordination, whole of government. If we're building our successful and durable grids, we should be following that work with American technology to support project development within that larger and sustained grid. There's another principle, which I'll mention very briefly and that's sustainability of grids -- of grid projects. Another thing that's often overlooked is all the attention is paid to up-front development of grid projects. Too little attention is paid to sustainability. You know, durability, maintenance, the sanctity of contracts, all of the conditions which have to go into making sure that grid development is sustainable be it micro or moderate grid into larger scale grid. Because another problem, you sell a project that has grid capacity, but that grid capacity begins to deteriorate after two, three, four years and thus the project becomes immaterial to actually meeting the demands. I'm going to quickly go over a couple of specific examples of projects that we think and the collective sort of high thinking that I called on for this I think are things that EXIM could be particularly effective in making sure we're exporting successful technology. One is an example of a project in Nigeria that Winrock's been working on for several years where we're working with the French Development Bank on ensuring adequate and affordable lines of credit in local -- among local banks within the project area. As many of you know, the work in Africa, 25, 30, 35 percent interest rates are not uncommon. That's simply not sustainable. That is not -- you really can't develop a durable project when you're asking for 30 percent on finance. One thing that EXIM could do would be to look for these local projects that in this case, it's called SUNREF and we're developing off grid solar. And because of the support from the French Development Authority, we're able to offer 10 to 12 percent interest, which is within a sustainable range, within the range of finance available -- often available in Africa. Another broad area of the projects that we are engaged in is food security. And tying food security to the broad food security mandate to specific projects is something where there is a record of returns that can support financial investment up-front. For example, we've been involved in a project in Kenya with a Reno, Nevada-based company called SunDanzer. And SunDanzer makes the materials to develop milk chillers -- solar milk chillers. This is a huge issue in Africa, cold chain. Cold chain is crucial. And this helps us create solar food chillers. SunDanzer creates and exports the material. And then we have worked with local dairy farmers all over Kenya to develop these. Solar-based chillers are durable. They're mobile obviously because of the solar technology. They're easily repairable. And we've seen that on the money lended to create this solar chiller projects, we've seen routinely returns of 25 and 30 and 35 percent. And so that's one example that illustrates the larger question of food security. Well-designed projects that are designed to eliminate food waste, increase distribution areas. It helps small farmers. It helps with food security within geographies. It helps with political and economic stability. And it's another objective of the United States Government to improve food security in Africa. And the last specific one I'll mention and that's wind energy development. This is an example exported, no pun intended, from Vietnam. But Winrock has worked for years in Vietnam on a type of project, which we believe has broad application -- potential application in Sub-Saharan Africa. And that is to work with wind developers in Sub-Saharan Africa and actually connect them -- work proactively to connect them with U.S. wind producers. We do turbine protection in Arkansas for Winrock is base. And turbine export is one of the areas in which we believe -- and most people we talk to believe is ripe for expansion. Turbine is one of the areas where the United States is at or ahead of our competitors globally on turbine production. And there are -- there are enormous opportunities for expansion of wind energy, but there is lack of finance -- subsidized finance in Africa -- Sub-Saharan Africa to make the connection. And we know in Vietnam, we connected wind project developers with General Electric. And we were able to get General Electric to export with some co-financing to Vietnam. And it's been enormously successful. I should also say -- as my last parting point I will say, all of this -- everything we've talked about fits in with the China competition objective of the bank. We could have another entire day of examples of projects where we are competing -- "we" being the United States be it OPIC or EXIM, our private exporters are competing with the Chinese on energy projects -- energy and food security that the food security projects are based on adequate energy. And so all of this is important for us to meet the China challenge. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Well said. MR. FERGUSON: And with that, I will actually thank you for the extra time I've been given and pass it on -- pass it back to Chairman O'Brien. (simultaneous speaking) CHAIR O'BRIEN: There we go. That's right. MR. FERGUSON: Thank you very much, Chair. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you so much, Rodney. That was terrific. Interesting you should say working with U.S. developers is critical because you're absolutely right, getting projects up and running is critical. Our next presenter is Kevin Smith. Kevin is the CEO of Lightsourcebp. Kevin has spent his career developing, financing, building, and operating projects. In fact, probably thousands and thousands of megawatts in emerging markets around the world, including Africa where Kevin and I have worked together. And I've worked with Kevin really for 25 years. And I've never worked with one who knows more about how to get successful projects up and off the ground. Kevin, thank you for joining. MR. SMITH: Thank you very much, Jim. Can you guys hear me okay? CHAIR O'BRIEN: We can. MR. SMITH: Okay, great. And you know, I'll keep my comments brief to keep with the schedule. But as Jim said, I'm currently CEO for a group called Lightsourcebp, a large scale solar developer, worldwide activities. And you know, BP, the U.K. oil and gas company is a 50 percent owner at the shareholder level. So we're active around the world. Right now, I head up the Americas, which is U.S. and Latin American activities. Prior to Lightsourcebp, I was CEO for a group called Solar Reserve. And we were very active in Africa. Lightsourcebp is active in Africa as well, although it's more rapping up our activities. At my previous CEO post, we built about $800 million worth of solar projects in South Africa. And we're active in a number of countries around the region. And in my career, I've probably built projects in five or six countries in Africa. So you know, I think one of the things that we've got to really look closely is how EXIM and the other U.S. agencies, I'll say look at this as a competition. In a lot of cases, you may see U.S. equipment maybe as a great solution. Maybe not necessarily as competitive price wise as say something coming from the Chinese. So the overall package that we've put together as a U.S. supplier really needs to be competitive. So the support from EXIM and others needs to look at this as a competition. They need to understand what the competitors are offering. And when I say "the competitors", that means, you know, typically as was just mentioned, China's probably the biggest competitor in Africa right now. They're making all kinds of in-roads into the various countries in Africa and offering very strong financing packages. The Germans, the French, you know, the Koreans, the Japanese are all very active in those markets. But clearly, the Chinese are the -- are the ones that have targeted the African continent as a big area of growth. So that's typically who we're running across is the Chinese. So when we look at our -- when the U.S. looks at its activities, they've got to look at this is a competitive market and act like they're in competition. And that means a bunch of things. In some cases, it also means looking at, you know, what potentially a commercial bank would do and being able to take some additional risk over and above what commercial banks are willing to do in the region. And that can provide that additional incentive for, you know, the South African Government or whoever to use kind of a U.S. sourced product or project. I think the other area where typically I've had some issues is timing in that to go through the full process, whether it's with EXIM or USTDA or OPIC or whoever, it's a pretty lengthy process. Whereas, you know, when we go into a bid process, you know, you may have a few months to put together your bid and then you're expected to sign contracts within three to six months after you're awarded. And if you've got, you know, a 12 to 18-month process that you're going through with EXIM or OPIC, you really can't depend on that financing structure for your bid. So maybe it's an upside on a project, but it may not allow you to bid it, you know, kind of real time as you're -- as you are going through the project. So I think the timing issue needs to really be looked at closely and how that can be pulled into make it more of -- you know, allow developers to be competitive in those processes. And I think probably the last point I would make is the fact that the U.S. has a lot of tools in its tool chest that they can utilize in a process. You've got USTDA that can look at, you know, early stage study grants that can get, you know, get our foot in those markets with early stage studies. You've got EXIM with regards to, you know, financing of goods and services. And then you've got OPIC, which is broader kind of financing activities. And I think even when you're looking at OPIC, you know, looking at, you know, the percentage of a project that we can bring cost effective U.S. financing into or subsidized U.S. financing into is critical. You know, if we're limiting it to, you know, 20 percent or 30 percent or the portion that's only U.S. supplied equipment, you know, some of the other countries that we're competing against like the Chinese where even the Canadians -- We've got into situations where Canadians were bringing in a much, much broader financing package even though the Canadian content was a smaller slice. So I think -- I think looking at this as a competition, taking additional risks over and above what commercial banks can take, timing issues, and then coordinating with other U.S. agencies are probably some of the key areas that I would see recommend going forward. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Great. Thank you so much, Kevin. That was really helpful. And I've kept a careful list for a letter, so thank you. MR. SMITH: Okay, wonderful. Yeah, thanks everybody. I'm at another event, so I snuck out just to do a little ten-minute cameo for Jim. So I appreciate everybody's time, but obviously this is a critical issue for U.S. developers and suppliers to be competitive. So I appreciate everybody looking at this. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Great. Thanks, Kevin. In addition to renewable energy, another key aspect is alternative energy projects. And our next presenter, Devon Hyver from Plug Plower is responsible for building the Plug Power business in Europe. And you probably know, Plug Power is working on the development of hydrogen fuel cells that would eventually conventional batteries and equipment and vehicles that would otherwise be powered by electricity. So very important technology for supplying alternative ways for moving folks around. Devon? MR. HYVER: All right. Thank you so much and thank you for the time to talk. First of all, I would like to thank the EXIM team. They are supporting us and they'll also be over the place. So I really appreciate the (indiscernible) with us three to four weeks ago in Kairo where we are the (indiscernible) activity around green energy. So I'll need to share some quick slides on green energy in Africa. (indiscernible) as you know, Plug is one of the top leaders on the market for green energy market based out of (indiscernible) in New York state. So really exciting being there. Very strong growth in the U.S., but as you mentioned, a global level from India to (indiscernible) to Europe, we are (indiscernible) expanding. And to come here with Kevin Smith's points, we are a very aggressive combination in Africa at the moment by the Chinese company and by the German company as well. The Chinese are using a very similar scale to the (indiscernible) for very cost-effective prices, it's not sale and competitive prices. And then when you need to (indiscernible) -- when you need to add (indiscernible) managers is getting more and more challenging. But as you mentioned, to replace the fuel sale and on the gas of the future, using different technology that Plug Power is providing out of the U.S. We are the fuel (indiscernible) where we are the (indiscernible) team from the power sources, where we do (indiscernible) company working with GE for example in some project while the (indiscernible) part of the project. Then we could use hydrogen. And we use hydrogen in different process. It's there for market routine or for generation of other different (indiscernible) such as ammonia, fertilizer, methanol in some countries and some areas. So we have a very strong growth footprint and presence in Middle East, Africa, and India already. We have multiple offices in Dubai, Oman, and India and we manage all the projects. We have been involved all over the place in North Africa or in South Africa, as well at the moment. So Plug Power is building the largest ever (indiscernible) electrolyzer that you will be able to see during the COP27 (indiscernible). The ammonia plant (indiscernible) technology from U.S. as well by KBR, ammonia leader on the market. And we have another (indiscernible) project with (indiscernible) America for the combination of the mining and (indiscernible) in South Africa. Why using hydrogen to retain the process? You have multiple different sources. Today, they are using it in gas. But gas is not available everywhere in Africa. However, Africa (indiscernible) are very -- have a lot of sun and a lot of wind available so they can produce green energy almost anywhere. Countries such as (indiscernible), Morocco, Tanzania, Algeria, and Egypt are in the leading race to be able to produce it. On the other hand, in many of these countries, there is no fertilizer, there is no methanol plants. But tomorrow morning, instead of using gas, they could be producing (indiscernible) all these fertilizers or methanol for different industries such as the shipping industry or such as the (indiscernible) in this country. Where today, when they buy fertilizer out of Europe, out of U.S., they pay a very high price for the raw materials. Whole wheat (indiscernible), we use hydrogen in different process. So Plug supplies companies electrolyzer process that is working with (indiscernible) to generate what we call "green energy". Then we put it in the ammonia (indiscernible) that companies such as KBR can supply. But to be able to produce green ammonia and export or use locally with new energy for different (indiscernible) and different potential (indiscernible). But one of the big examples that I'm able to show you is the Green Ammonia Project we are doing. It's the largest ever in Africa -- the largest ever to be built in the world by 2022. It's the EBIC plant in Egypt. It's owned by OCI Orascom. So (indiscernible) is providing the power. Plug Power is providing the (indiscernible). Orascom is building and integrating everything on local ground. And then we supply green ammonia to generate the complete -- we supply green hydrogen to generate green ammonia to be spread. So that's the first of its kind. At the moment, we are (indiscernible) for multiple -- for the project. EXIM is working with us on some of the other future projects coming. And they were here as I mentioned one month ago where the (indiscernible) delegation from the U.S. to (indiscernible) EXIM DOE as well. So the governmental (indiscernible) that mentioned clearly and presently to us, the new Chinese companies are coming and building factory directly on local ground using whatever kind of (indiscernible) and being able to go back to all our customers and getting the prices on all the projects they are doing to try to avoid (indiscernible) competition with Plug technology. Also as I mentioned, hydrogen truck in South Africa to decarbonize the (indiscernible). So Plug Power supplied the refueling station that is used to refuel the first ever mining trucks. There's 100 trucks powered by hydrogen to decarbonize this new industry. The end customer is Anglo-American. So we are working to supply (indiscernible) and we are working with our U.S. colleague from PDC Machine supplying the equipment and the compressors that we ship to South Africa and then still over there on the American site. So that is what Plug is doing today in Africa. We have multiple projects. As I mentioned, the (indiscernible) of EXIM and to all the government entities, we are hoping to put Plug in the middle of the place in South Africa -- in Africa. We trust that there is multiple opportunities over there that won't be part of the energy transition in Africa, but also generating new (indiscernible) for the continent to move with us in this green transition. Thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Devon, thank you so much. And I hope those slides are available to all of us. If you don't mind, sending them along. I'm particular excited about some of the applications like fertilizer, which are such an overlooked area. But now with what's happening in the Ukraine become so critical. MR. HYVER: Thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: So thank you. Ultimately of course, this is about supporting the export of U.S. goods and services. And our next presenter is Nava Akkheni, Vice President of emerging markets for Nextracker, which makes the tracking systems for photovoltaic solar powered systems. Nava is also a member of the larger advisory committee and will be joining us as well later today. Nava, please. MR. AKKNENI: Thank you. Thank you for providing this opportunity, Madam Vice Chair, Jim, and all of the people here. So I think basically for renewal energy, we don't need to emphasize everyone that is very important in all the world, especially in the African countries. And the future of renewable energy is all dependent on the safety, reliability, and innovation. So just emphasize the (indiscernible) product the country can provide. If it's American, Chinese, European. And also, what kind of innovation and also the safety and how fast to execute. These are the key, very, very important things. So just directly focusing on Africa, it is -- Africa is going to be the case of opportunity. It's not just one time and people realize it took long time, almost like 40 years for us as a company to educate these markets, which everyone knows it will impact almost 600 million people -- 1.3 billion in South Africa -- I mean African country ablation. So if you look at everywhere in the world, all the many countries talk about how I'm joining the gigawatt scale -- we call gigawatt scale. But if you look at today in Africa, only two countries. One in Egypt (indiscernible). But in the middle, which is immediate focus for the countries like low and middle income countries, which are very important in Africa. Right? And this focus was lacking and simply beyond gigawatt, only two countries you can talk about. So we as a company have been -- this first triggered when I first registered in 2016, Kenya, where I was asked to present one of the renewal energy conference. A lot of U.S. trained people came and presented. And the billions of dollar funding is going from years, but there is all from either European EPC or Chinese company. There is absolutely zero from American support. So that is very personal. I took it up with the U.S. Trade in Bahria. I come from Bahria. And fortunately I got a lot of support from Shannon Pritchard, local representative and also immediately connected with U.S. EXIM and also U.S. Trade in Washington. That is where my first contact with Craig O'Connell and then the team all grown up here. So this is the -- if you look at the market potential, we just say what triggers the various African countries, it's almost like 17 gigawatt total available market if I just put it. How much time it takes to execute and what are the requirements -- what is it that we need to do, that needs to be worked out. But what I want to say is for the last three years, we successfully with our partners, we executed and we tried to put footprint in each and every key country like first one, Angola and Kenya, Malawi, and of course Egypt, we are working on (indiscernible) countries. And if you look at last week, Madam Chair, was with the Financial Secretary of Angola. They are projecting to reach 22 gigawatt by 2030. They really are excited. (indiscernible), Madam Secretary Chair is how can I create jobs within my country? So this is a key part. So that is where as an extractor, we came into picture and I'm very happy to state, we have competition all over the world; Chinese, European, everywhere. But last week, my country declared (indiscernible) number one market share in African countries is 56 person market share. So this shows that we can compete. It's not that we cannot compete. Right? And at that time, what does customers require is lot of persistence and also a lot of flexibility in terms of the operations, logistics, even the time we could not -- for the first batch of the projects. We could not mobilize the US EXIM in time, but we had to depend on one of the European EXIM. And European EXIM is more expensive than U.S. manufacturers strictly speaking, their products. But still we're able to complete and execute this project. Today we have single largest in Kenya, single largest is Malawi. Malawi really plays the Chinese manufacturer. (indiscernible) demolish that because of the, again reliability, I told you and the innovation and replace with the (indiscernible). So we have a lot of hope and we are very much focusing as a company to promote renewal energy very strongly in these markets. And also providing the latest technology product anywhere in the world it's available. But other products being offered in US EXIM (indiscernible) African countries. And we are also shown that flexibility and demonstrated in different parts of the world how we can contribute locally. This means immediately leveling the local services, local jobs. This is what we showed during our meeting with Madam Chair and myself also there to Angola Financial Secretary. So what we need is as a product responsible, we are expanding to domestic manufacturing heavily and to support US EXIM exports, of course apart from the domestic demand. And the first projects which we are about to sign another major project in Africa will be exporter and we are very much seeking support from US EXIM to complete the financing for this project. I think we are on course. And we will be exporting from USA. So we are going to make as a company -- an extractor, we are going to have a 78 gigawatt worth or products manufacturing to already inaugurated and enabling the steel companies who are almost in low capacities, but bringing that back. And we have a third one coming up on the -- I sent the detail 02-28 with Energy Secretary's contact. So we invite Madam Chair to be there and to show -- and because we are also calling, Madam Chair, people from Angola to represent because the prospects will go from there for US EXIM. So I'm working with the (indiscernible). So what we need is, especially in these low and middle income countries, we need to give some kick start to go beyond 85 percent because these countries ratings to be improved and the power requirement is there. They are very, very serious now and they're very serious about American products and with demonstratives in technology working everywhere. As a company, we can make it work. So Madam, Chair, I think our partners in Africa already made a special request to you. I think (indiscernible) to go beyond 85 percent. Then the other financing, what our balance need to do 5 or 10 percent that can be financed by other sources. And sovereign guarantees we are working on insurance. Also the PPA, (indiscernible) is becoming 20 years, 25 years, now 30 years, lifetime. People are asking for that like them. So the demanding -- the requesting for the extended payment from the, like EXIM. It used to be like ten years or 15, now they're asking like 18 years, which is still very secure in my opinion. And we can manage -- we should consider this and enable opportunities big. And with that confidence, you can understand when we are expanding domestic manufacturing, we have to worry about competition because (indiscernible) tariffs have to be met within the country. And we did all the calculations, not that we did not do this year. On coming year, we are going to be much bigger and we wanted to make sure our products maintain number one market sharing in Africa. So these are the -- And also the one thing we are working is the (indiscernible) manufacturing available to meet the (indiscernible) because the panel pricing is one of the major -- almost 50 percent of the project cost. And we also initially, until the manufacturing of panel come up, which there are people committed to set up here to 78 gigawatt again, matching quantities with the demand in next six months to one year. So we are already working and I also propose two years exempt from other manufacturers to set up here -- manufacturers within the United States. That way the re-insurance of these panel suppliers (indiscernible) may have to buy from Korea also will go. But initially we need to give -- to kick start. Okay? So the timing wise, I think the customer traction and the education we did for the last three years and it is now paying off. These countries are coming up. The amount of inquiries I get from African countries are enormous. Right? And we are seeing (indiscernible) some of these people wanted to -- very eager to have meeting with us. Okay? That shows the trend. And we are very, very confident. We are putting a lot of effort and focus. And as a company, we don't hesitate. We committed also to train local people, use the local subcontractors. And in the project, EXIM financing, we are to work with Craig and your auditing team, how much credit back we can get by taking the local construction companies are one of the reasons. So these are the things required. And definitely the major thing is NexTracker point of view innovation and technology that is the -- one of our major -- and being the worldwide leader with 30 percent market share. And as I mentioned, I'm very happy to report that in Africa, we are number one now with 56 percent marketing. So we want to increase _and sustain it. So that is the feedback I give. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Yeah. Thank you so much, Nava. There are lots of great points. I know many on the committee have pointed out the importance of the benefit locally to the projects as well. And your emphasis makes great sense on that. So thank you so much. Providing financing of course is what EXIM does. And our next presenter, Rick Saines, is a partner with Pollination Capital which works to find ways to bring innovative projects to -- I'm sorry -- innovative financing to projects that reduce carbon. Rick has been involved with carbon reduction for a long time, including have been awarded the Order of Merit by the French Government for his work on the Paris climate change accords. And I'm also of course proud to say that Rick is one of my former partners, so Rick. MR. SAINES: Thank you, Jim. Can you hear me okay? CHAIR O'BRIEN: We can. MR. SAINES: Okay, great. It's really a pleasure to get an opportunity to talk with you all today. Thank you for this opportunity. I know we're running a little past on time, so just Jim, please stop me cause you know how I can go on and on. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Don't worry, Rick. MR. SAINES: I won't take offense, I promise. So I just wanted to raise a couple of comments here. I've been listening into the discussion and a lot of the high points have been raised well. Kevin Smith raised a bunch of points about, you know, thinking of this as a competition, which I do think is critical. But I also think it's a moment that is unique right now because the Paris Agreement and the global architecture for building the future has been essentially set with the latest COPP in Glasgow where they finally agreed to the Article 6 provisions of the Paris Agreement. And what that is, is essentially a big cooperation mechanism that is the on-ramp to the private sector related to carbon and net zero and end markets. And there are so many initiative happening right now that are bringing together the opportunity to build infrastructure, to build resiliency around climate. But how countries actually achieve their Paris commitments because all of the financing and all of the projects that are being contemplated right now do go through a lens of how does this project -- how does this initiative impact positively or negatively the country's nationally determined contribution, which is the Paris commitment? And all countries have them. And so countries have essentially laid out their priorities, their green growth priorities. And you can go to the NCCs and basically get the roadmap for building the future. And it is a highly competitive atmosphere, you know, in Africa. Some of the work that we've been doing -- and I would be remiss if I didn't recognize Ms. Buchner on the panel as well. We work very closely together in Africa. And you know, I'll share an antidote just as emblematic of the challenge, which is our last visit to Nairobi before look-down and pandemic was February of 2020. And we returned in February of 2022 this last year. And in-between that period of time, the Chinese had constructed an entire new elevated highway from the airport all the way through downtown Nairobi out of the UN Environment Program, which is on the other side. And it was completed and done by -- you know, Chinese workers -- Chinese, you know, cement. So it's not -- there are elements to this competition where if you think about American values and the American opportunity, we can do things better. And we can make them be better for the communities and engage with the governments and the local communities and the local market opportunities in a way that is competitive. But it is -- it really requires -- and I think also Kevin mentioned, the whole government approach. So one of the thoughts would be what is the, you know, if you have an -- it's food and energy. Those are the two big issues -- food and energy. If you have an agricultural priority or an agricultural product and you can go out and create a combined financing package that is the EXIM goods and services married with the guarantees from the government, insurance products, et cetera and bring that as a once stop shop package to these governments and then -- and get them to really open up. Because their inundated with incoming all the time. And it's the easy -- it's the path of least resistence in many cases. And so that competition is really profound. And it's not necessarily being orchestrated in a -- in a really thoughtful way right now. So I think we're -- you know, we have a moment -- we have an opportunity to align these investments with the climate objective, which is, you know, very aligned with the government's objective here. But also, you know, it's the future. So some of the work we're doing in Africa includes advising on accelerated decommissioning for coal for example. And so we're involved in the work in South Africa that's ongoing there. And it's a challenge to figure out, you know, how do you -- it's a massive restructuring of the markets. There are existing challenges around the utility and their deposition, you know, the laws that are in place in those markets that need to be enhanced or mitigated around. But the opportunity is before us. And so I think it's just a matter of digging in a bit, figuring out in each of the markets what are they key risks that need to be overcome? And what role can EXIM properly play in conjunction with its other -- the whole of government approach? But it's a tremendous opportunity. And every project is going to be looked at with this perspective of what is this doing to either further the NDC? And if you can tell that story and you can create those positive climate outcomes that drive towards net zero, that is a -- that is a hugely valuable component to the solution and ultimately to get to success on these projects. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Great. Thank you so much, Rick. That was really helpful. One of the comments made by members of this committee many times is that it all depends upon the market. And each place is different and we need to think of it that way. So thank you for that message. MS. SAINES: Sure. CHAIR O'BRIEN: We wanted to also hear about the work that's being done by EXIM on renewable projects in Africa. There's a lot of good work that's being done. With us is Cassie Rowlands and Craig O'Connor. Cassie is Director of Climate Outreach and Engagement for EXIM and Crait is a Renewable Energy Officer with EXIM as well. And so Cassie and Craig, if you would-- there we go on the screen. Thank you so much. Cassie, are you first? MR. ROWLANDS: Yeah. We're going to present together. I'm going to just share my screen here -- CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you so much. MR. ROWLANDS: -- so that you can see it. Are you able to see it yet? CHAIR O'BRIEN: We can. Thank you. MR. ROWLANDS: Okay, great. So just a little bit of background before we dive into EXIMs experience in Africa. So EXIM has a charter mandate in its statute to promote an increased support for renewable energy, energy efficiency, and energy storage exports, which our charter notes includes electric vehicles. This was expanded in our 2019 reauthorization. It previously just mentioned renewable energy. And then Congress expanded it a little bit to include these other areas. So EXIM has had this for a long time, which Craig can speak to. But now we're broadening our outreach and our support to be responsive to this mandate. We've got a couple of programs that we use to try and support these types of exports. Our longstanding Environmental Exports Program, our China and Transformational Exports Program, which I know you all have heard about. And they Make More in America initiative that the Board approved in April. We're really trying to tackle support for these sectors in a few different ways through these programs. The Environmental Exports Program is our financing for foreign buyers who we can offer the maximum terms allowed under the EOC arrangement. The China and Transformational Exports Program has these same sectors, renewable energy, energy efficiency, and energy storage listed as transformational export areas. So kind of doubly important in the eyes of our statute in really trying to counter Chinese competition in these sectors, which we know is very present as we've heard today and previously before. And then Make More In America initiative really is there to try and help build up U.S. manufacturing capacity in these sectors. We know that more could be made here and we're trying to really support that and expand that for a lot of clean tech companies that are looking to expand their Made in the USA footprint. Our authorizations in the renewable energy sector were quite high before the lapse and really clearly the lapse had a big hit on those through 2019. We have been trying to really build back and it's really great that we're getting the support from the Climate Council and others as we try to do that. And so we've still got some work to do. As we're trying to do that, we're really focusing on outreach, whereas the area that I've been most focused on, there are a number of stakeholder groups, whether it's Renewable Energy Trade Associations and others that are great multipliers. They have a lot of members. These folks, we're learning a lot of the time haven't heard of EXIM or haven't heard of us in a while and are not aware of our new programs. So we're really trying to get out there and talk to more of them. We're trying to make sure that we're visible at a lot of major renewable energy conferences. We've got Chair Lewis lined up to speak at a couple as well just to remind folks to think EXIM as she likes to say. And we're as Devon from Plug Power mentioned, we're going on some trade missions including the one we just got back from in Cairo and another one in Asia that both of those trade missions were focused on U.S. Clean Tech and partnering with the foreign buyers in-country to really make those relationships and try to facilitate deal making alongside offers of EXIM financing. And then lastly, just trying to leverage the contacts that we all have across the bank. When Chair Lewis came to EXIM, she really called on everybody to try and pitch in increase our support in these areas. So it is a whole of EXIM approach. And I would also add, it's a whole of government approach. We're really working with a lot of interagency partners. There's a lot of conversations about outreach to exporters, building up the pipeline, and really trying to increase our efforts in this way to support more clean energy projects around the globe. And in Africa particularly, there are a number of specific efforts there. I would also say, I didn't mention on this list, I probably should have that we've got the recommendations from the Council on Climate that Dr. Buchner mentioned earlier. We're certainly going to be looking into those. We've actually already started looking into those and seeing how we can improve EXIMs financing again to increase our renewable energy and related authorizations. We have our new global finance development team that we're building up. We've got a few folks already on board and there's going to be more coming. And I know they're going to be focused on clean tech as well. And then hopefully that will turn into some clean tech authorizations. And I'm going to turn it over to Craig who can talk about where we're seeing some of those and where we're some of the appetite already. MR. O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you, Cassie. And it's a pleasure to be here with all of you. And I think you got a bit of a preview on where we're seeing activity. And as you know, EXIM Bank is demand-driven, but I've long looked at my job as being that of increasing the probability that EXIM Bank will be demanded because we've got U.S. goods and services being supplied. So Nava mentioned some of the work we're doing with Angola. And that reflects really what we're seeing with many grids, as well as storage. Rodney Ferguson mentioned the challenge of transmission. With mini grids you don't have that much of a challenge. And so we're seeing clearly also storage for on-site power, for back-up power, for resiliency. So we're about ready to announce our first storage project soon. We're also as Nava mentioned, we're working very closely with them and Mima could tell you first hand for projects throughout the region. So again as was mentioned before, this is an incredible time and there's incredible possibilities. And I think we're well positioned in a number of these technologies. Wind energy for sure, we've got some major wind energy suppliers. And so we try to actively engage with the U.S. companies to try to put the best proposal forward. We just had a conference call right before this meeting with Devon and his team from Plug Power. And we're constantly working with other exports including -- not limited to, but including First Solar and Tesla Storage, ESS, iron flow battery, and EO's zinc flow battery that moved their complete supply chain back from China to Pittsburgh. So again, this is an emerging space in the storage and I think we stand well positioned. So thank you very much. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Excellent. Thank you both. And those are really encouraging slides and examples of the good work that EXIMs doing. So thank you so much. DIRECTOR BACHUS: Jim, can we make sure that they send those slides to us, Cassie and Craig to all of the members of the committee? And thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Yes. Thank you, Director Bachus. Absolutely. Well thank you. We're definitely on time, which I really appreciate. We have Jim Morton at 11:45 who will spend some time with us talking about U.S. Government policy. And then we have a public comment period before John speaks. But now it's time for the committee discussion. As I've noted before, we probably have not saved enough time. But we had such great presenters that I thought the Committee would benefit from all of the discussion we've had. But if I can, given the time we have, rather than go around and go one by one, maybe I'll just invite committee members to comment both on the presentations, then also their thoughts and ideas for the recommendation letter as we put that together. Who'd like to start? Mima, you're on the screen just whether lucky or not, perhaps you'd want to start? MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Certainly. Thank you, Jim. Excellent discussions and thank you, Chair Lewis. I want to make a couple of comments to maybe kick off the discussion. One, I wanted to really underline the comment you made starting off, Jim, as to the Chair being all over the world. I mean we've said it before. That was one of the early recommendations; EXIM must get out in the field. People must hear EXIM is back out there. So if you want that aggressive outreach, it's absolutely applauded and needs to continue. So thank you, Chair, for that. Secondly, I wanted to pivot on the comment you made, Chair, on the sovereigns increasing, coming back to EXIM. I'm obviously all the time in Africa. In fact, I'm coming to you all from Conakry, Guinea at the moment. In discussions with sovereigns, their biggest problem, most of them, I mean food security is always the power. And renewable power, how can it benefit from that? What has happened over the years and I've been banging my head around both with renewable power for many, many years now. IPPs are very difficult to put together because utilities are basically in most countries bankrupt. So you then go for the government guarantee. Which the government says, well why do I give the guarantee when I just go ahead and have the asset? So I think what we're seeing now -- and I advise this in Africa as was stated before -- the developers are really seeking out to do public private partnerships with governments when a whole solution is brought forth, both the financing and the technical solutions. So soon Africa will come together and bring U.S. exporters for the full solution. NexTracker is one of them, (indiscernible) Tesla Storage, hitting all the points that were asked -- referred to before. What we need to do is offer the full solutions at the least cost price. And that often is through the sovereigns. So I'm very much encouraged that whole sort of outreach and that approach. And as Craig stated, hopefully soon there will be a very, very interesting announcement to be made by EXIM Bank. Now currently the other areas discussed, I think again important is the additionality piece. One of the speakers spoke about the importance of really adding that extra value, picking up that risk that the commercial banks won't pick up. Very critical. Another critical aspect is getting to that higher coverage. Somebody mentioned particularly in Angola, we need to ideally get up to 95 percent cover. Third aspect is collaborating with other VCAs. There are certain things that we get more competitively, the developers from other countries. Let's go ahead and mix and match that with VCAs. The goal is to be able to compete against China. So those are my comments. I think the question I'd like to see and maybe a couple people can reference further, you know as Chairman of Africa Global (inaudible) registry. The cold chain is a very critical part of everything needed on the continent. Solar power, wind power, renewable energy, and the bush is clearly what's necessary for the cold chain. And the cold chain then is not only food security, but it's also for the health, for the vaccines. You need to have cold storage. So I want to make sure that's actually picked up because often times, that aspect is forgotten. Again, because shortage of time, perhaps I'll stop there. But I think these are the critical aspects and the one that whole of government collaboration with DFC, you know, there's a number of projects I'm working on with not only renewables, but others where there's a role for DFC, there's a role for EXIM Bank. EXIM can step in much quicker, I think, in basically providing equipment and services while DFC is going forward with a larger, bigger, full project financing package. So with that, Jim, I thank you and look forward to further comments. Over. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Mima. I really appreciate that. Other comments from committee members? Lots of good ones there. Please feel free. Does anyone want to speak up directly? Maybe I know, was Lars -- Lars is here in the committee room with us. Perhaps Lars, I know, given the work right now, particularly the importance of transportation with what's happened in the Ukraine, you may want to comment on -- MEMBER HICKEY: Sure. CHAIR O'BRIEN: -- how this fits with what you're doing as well. MEMBER HICKEY: First of all, Chairman Lewis, it was great seeing you in Lisbon. I didn't want to monopolize your time because I knew I'd be here. But it's great to see EXIM out, you know, conveying their solutions to the world. I would say one criticality, I would say when you're marketing and signing MOUs, I think it's critical that some of the finite details are discussed because usually after visits I get a lot of interests from different, you know, governments, state-owned railways. And all the sudden, they get very discouraged and they're like all right, you have a MARAD requirement. You have a limitation of content. You have this, this, this, this. And we're like well darn, I can't do a deal now. So that's one thing I would say is in these discussions, I think it's good to be very clear on the capabilities, not that we can do everything, but here is some of the finer details. With that I would say, those have been discussed many, many times. One of the criticalities within the Sub-Saharan Africa landscape is transportation. As we saw here in the U.S., when you see a logistical supply chain break down, it really causes, you know, struggles for a country. The railroad is a key component of that. And you know, EXIM has supported many deals in Africa many years ago. Now we're trying to do more in Africa. But that logistical rail is very important there. And they're all state-owned, so it's very critical. With respects to what I was talking to James about, one great, you know, point and reference is Ukraine. Ninety-five percent of the goods that were moved during the war were moved on GE locomotives for that country. So without those locomotives, you know, the country is in critical, you know, peril as far as logistics. So I'd keep that in mind when we look at these different state-owned sovereign railroads that the rail is very important, not only for just moving goods, but to get these other projects done -- to move in the higher technologies of the solar, the renewable. And again, we do have very high tech locomotives. We have battery. We have hydrogen and all this stuff. But I would say specifically for the African continent, we like to do steps. We can't leapfrog in the hydrogen locomotives because again as Rodney was pointing out, the grid just can't take it right now. So we have to do -- maybe moving from dirty diesel to clean diesel. And then as these other projects develop, then we go to battery, then we would go to hydrogen. But your support for us is very critical in these emerging markets. And your support -- and I would say harp on your teams to be as creative as you can to find solutions because, you know, a lot of these projects are not easy with sovereigns. And your support and creativity is critical. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Great. Thank you so much, Lars. That was really helpful in what a statistic 95 percent remarkable. I was looking for Senator Heitkamp on the screen. I should have known she was right here in the meeting with us. If it's okay with the committee, I'd like Senator Heitkamp who chairs the larger advisory committee both to say a few words about this, but perhaps also to say a few words about the general report of the Advisory Committee as well. HON. HEITKAMP: Sorry. The last time I was in this room, we were trying to keep up morale at the EXIM Bank. I think some of the old timers will remember that. Talking about whether we would get it reauthorized, whether in fact we would have a functioning institution. That was a long slog and didn't happen until after I left despite repeated political promises that were received by numerous ones of us who supported the EXIM Bank. And so this is -- this is what I want to say. All of these great ideas that I've been listening to, all of this wonderful dialogue about how we can participate will never happen unless we have a functioning robust and vibrant EXIM Bank. And that really is the reason why I took on the responsibility of the Advisory Committee, knowing that Rita who I work with over at GMF, I was also -- and continue to be on the Board as she abandoned us at the German Marshall Fund. But as I listen to all of this and I think about hardening infrastructure, whether it's power and energy infrastructure in Europe to help democracies like Ukraine. Whether it is making sure that our partners in Sub-Saharan Africa see us a path forward for the investment that they want to make. You go around the globe and you think about all the great work that we can be doing with the purpose of growing the American economy. And we can never lose sight of that. But we know that we're the most innovative clean energy industry in the world today. And we've got a lot to say about what can happen. But we cannot do it unless we have a whole of government approach and unless it is -- there is a full seat at the table for a vibrant and robust EXIM Bank. This credit agency is absolutely critical. Now the good news is we have new leadership. I think that several of the people who have been particularly opposed, let's say -- philosophically opposed to the bank are not going to be in public leadership anymore. Whether that now gives us an opportunity, we'll wait and see. We've got to build those relationships. But the bottom line is that we've got some work to do in bringing this agency back. And making it the best agency, making it the best export/import bank in the world. And if we don't work together, if we don't -- number one, I can tell you as a former member of Congress, the frustration that I would have when someone came to me and would tell me about all the challenges that they had -- I know the Congressman will share this -- all the challenges that they have. And then we would say what do you need? What do you want? What would make this better? And they felt hamstrung by the politics of the moment. And they go well, we just want you to understand how difficult it is for us. I said no, tell me what you want. And so I think we're really in that spot where, whether it is our Board who needs to be thinking strategically about what this institution needs in terms of expanded authority, in terms of expanded focus, or it's going back to Congress and changing the charter so it more aligns with in fact the goals of this country -- our export goals of this country -- our economic goals of this country. Whatever it is, we need to be strategic about it. And I think we're going to take a significant step this morning working with Chris and the great team here at -- Chris and Lee and the great team here. Denny Heck and I have asked that we beef up. You may have seen some changes in the letter -- the submission letter that the Bank initially sent out. We wanted it to be stronger on the front end about the challenges that we're confronting. But we need to figure out a way to elevate this dialogue, not just here at the Bank and not just with the Advisory Committees, but elevated in a whole of government in the administration and certainly at Congress so that people understand how absolutely essential. And I don't say that blindly because I'm sitting here in this great institution that has done so much for American manufacturers, done so much for American businesses. I don't say that blindly. This is an essential component. And the seat at the table needs to be clear and the goals need to be clear. And there will be a lot of people pushing for other things. There will always be somebody who has an idea in the Administration or in Congress on what the EXIM Bank should do. Our job as advisors to the EXIM Bank and the Board's job as those people who manage and the Chair's job as people who manage this bank is to be clear in terms of our objectives. And I want to say once again, I've served on a lot of advisory boards. And I've done a fair amount of Board work, a fair amount of strategic work for institutions. I think without a doubt, the quality of the work being done by our advisory subcommittees, Sub-Sahara, whether it's climate, whether it is the work that is being done on China, the new work that hopefully the Chair will help shepherd in on small business and on women on minority-run businesses. These are powerful documents. These are powerful insights into the problems today. People have spent incredible amounts of volunteer time giving us that advice. Okay, how do you think someone who gives you incredible volumes of their time, which is irreparable -- You know that. Once you spent an hour, it's gone. You don't know how many of those you have left in your life. Right? The worst thing we can do is leave those reports and those that work on the shelf. And so I know I had a wonderful opportunity to visit with Chair Lewis this morning. I know that the commitment is here. I know the bones are here, but we need to gain a little more weight speaking as someone who's never said that. The EXIM Bank needs to gain a little more weight, a little more heft, and a little more robustness if we're going to realize the challenges that have been outlined, but the directions that this administration wants to take the bank. And the leadership of the Bank wants to take the bank. So thank you so much and I look forward to this afternoon's meeting. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Great. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp. And for, I'm sure all of us on this committee, knowing how important EXIM is, the leadership you showed in bringing the bank back and getting through authorization, one would think logic and reason ought to prevail. But clearly your persistence is greatly, greatly appreciated. So thank you so much. Other comments from committee members? We still have a few minutes left. Of course, there's always later opportunity for the submittals. MEMBER OKPA: Over here. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Yes. E.E. please. MEMBER OKPA: Thank you. Excuse my voice. Thank you Chair and thank you everybody here. I wanted to just kind of re-echo what she said. You know, export/import can be for goods and services. You know, those are short-term stuff. If you're talking about energy power infrastructure, those are very capital long-term projects. And when you look at a charter of EXIM Bank, it doesn't have that longevity for the finals. And so when you look at some of these African countries, what are the challenges affecting their currency evaluation? So if you start a project now, by the time you ever -- from the time of groundbreaking to grand opening to really get in this operation, you have seen some of these currencies have lost tremendous value. So regardless of the PPA you may have signed, now how is the customer who is going to pay the local currency to be able to sustain, you know, paying back on that debt. So EXIM has to look at how do we peg these things? How do we support African nations with this fluctuating? For instance in Nigeria in 1999 when democracy started, 23 years, if you had $1 million naira, you had $12,000. Today's Nigeria, if you have $1 million naira, you have $1,700. So anybody who understands finance and modeling, you do the present value, you know, calculate that. You can't support anything no matter -- So that is a challenge. How do we get these countries capacity? A lot of these countries don't have the local economy for capacity to absorb the amount of infrastructure investment. EXIM can make, you know, $15 million here. $100 million is not going to scratch it, you know, unfortunately. So there should be a promotion on EXIM's side to look at regional projects. When you look at some of this country -- you look at Hoover Dam for example. The supply chain stays in America. So can EXIM do a project that looks at proximity of some of these countries and be able to say okay, three of four can come together. You have the capacity to support $5 billion. Most African countries are not at capacity to support $5 million for infrastructure. So you know, the financing is critical, currency devaluation is critical, and long-term because these are capital. If you look at the budget of most African nations, how much is set aside for capital improvement is less than 20 percent because a lot of things is servicing debts that are already in place, you know, recording expenses. So when you look at Nigeria, Minister of Power and Water, it has less than $1 billion for power. And only $100 million would be available for new project. So I think when we make those recommendations, this is one of those things. It's not just -- the technology is a simple thing. If you know how to flag (inaudible) economy. But the most important thing is to generate a local economic development policy that supports what the needs are. So far, none of these African countries are doing it. Thank you. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Well said. Thank you, E.E. Other comments from committee members, both here in the room and on the screen as well? I don't want to prioritize one or the other. Anyone else? I might call on someone. Uzo, if you don't mind, I know you couldn't attend the last meeting we had on strategic minerals, but I've loved the comments you made with respect to our first meeting. Perhaps you could comment on renewable energy as well? MEMBER IWEALA: Sure. First, thank you to everyone. Thank you to Chair Lewis and to Senator Heitkamp, and to you, Jim, as well. Just a couple of thoughts and it will mostly be in a sense echoing what has been said. And I think the comments that have been made are very astute and clear. I think one, to start off with, when we talk about what EXIM is trying to do, especially within this area of competition, I think, thinking about this idea that it's emotional as much as it is economic. And I want to say that just because if more countries -- if for, you know, the value proposition is essentially go with us. We're not China. I don't know how much that resonates. Versus painting or selling a picture of what exactly, you know, partnering with the United States. And it's been said in sort of like different terms here, but like what partnering with the United States or why going with a U.S. agency is actually that much better in terms of what it can do. So it's everything from -- Okay. Maybe it's quality of products. Maybe it's alignment of value, which I think, you know, there has to be examination of. And then it also about this idea of whether the investment that's being made, right, is that an investment for us, that is being the United States? Or is that an investment for all of us? I think that in terms of the messaging that's put forward in terms of again value proposition for U.S. EXIM, I think becomes really, really crucial. And it's something that I'm not necessarily hearing as concretely as I think might be beneficial for folks in-country. I think I'd also just like to echo sort of the point that was made by, I forgot who on the screen about timelines. And sort of from want of a better term, just like efficiency of application for development finance funding. So I used to be part of a firm or project called Lumos, which was applying for -- you know, which was pay as you go solar system operator in Nigeria and across West Africa. And that was one of the things that was very consistent was when it comes to funding for some of these projects, just the length of time and sort of the -- I would say reduce the risk appetite. And I understand why, but just for some of these projects in very risk-prone countries does become very problematic in terms of advancing whatever it is someone's trying to do and the attractiveness of capital that is much more risk-oriented then becomes a really big and important factor in the decision making process. And that goes back to that first point about it is emotional, as much as it is economic. Right? Some of the decisions about where is risky and where is not risky are emotional decisions rather than they are necessarily economic decisions based entirely on the returns that one can make. Case and point being like Argentina can still borrow money at an incredibly low rate versus many African countries are Argentina has defaulted and some of these countries haven't. Not to throw any shade on Argentina. Then the last thing I think that I would -- I mean those are really the two points. I also do just want to echo the currency risk issue, you know, which is a huge thing. You know, if you think about the fact that -- again, in Nigeria, the naira just in the last like year has probably lost about 30 percent of its value. That's alarming. And so if you're borrowing in dollars, right, and you're paying -- you're earning in local currency, that is a huge problem. And it can kill many of these businesses, especially within the energy space as they were saying. And especially -- Especially again in areas where you definitely -- I mean -- I don't know the word I'm looking for, but it can really kill your business prospects. And I think, thinking through that in a very concrete term how you can shore that up and how you can essentially allow folks to hedge, especially against currency risk across the board becomes really, really important. And also then makes the bank that much more attractive to folks who are doing projects. And I'll stop there. Thank you very much. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you, Uzo. Yes, Senator please. HON. HEITKAMP: (she doesn't turn microphone on) I totally agree that -- (audio interference) . MEMBER HICKEY: Actually I can add some comments to this. EXIM Bank, we did a large transportation deal with TRANSED and South Africa. I think it was in 2016. And the way that we got around, actually EXIM was able to support the deal in RAND. And what they were able to do is lend and RAND. But then if there was ever a default, it would crystalize into dollars. So it was actually a RAND-loan guaranteed by EXIM. And then they would pay back in RAND. But if there was a default, it would crystalize. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Just going to kind of quickly maybe the Chair's prerogative on commenting because I think there are so many good comments that were just made. But I do really appreciate Uzo's comment around the value proposition. I think that one of the things that's become clear in the meeting of course if the competitiveness in which we all operate -- the competitive atmosphere. And better articulating the value proposition. Instead of just lower interest rate, but more broadly quality of product and alignment of values and attractive financing and timeliness, and the ability to work closely with our African colleagues so that it's a win-win. A transaction isn't just about winning here, but it's winning there too. It's winning there in terms of the goods and services that they get. It's winning there because of the jobs, the improvements, the things that the transaction does with respect to the people in Africa is something that this committee has talked about every meeting that we've been at. And so I think those are just -- articulating that in a broader way than just simply it's $10 is a critical part of it. And I'd also just kind of quickly again using the Chair's prerogative, I appreciate Lars' comment on the currency issue. And I know you may have some comments. One of the difficulties in all of these projects is that they are long-lived projects that are large capital investments that you can't pick up and move somewhere else. So whereas if you're financing a product that is in an inventory and there's a default, you can pick it up and move it somewhere else. And we can take it from Nigeria to Kenya or somewhere where we can realize on the value. But you can't move without a lot of difficulty, a solar PV plant. And so thinking through those ways in which we can think whether it's about currency devaluation or the ability to accept that there's additionality and risk based upon where that plant sits is something that needs to be part of what probably is in a recommendation letter. All great points and thank you so much for articulating those. I know we have a few minutes left. I think John Morton will join us momentarily. Any last comments? Well, one from the public. I know I need to call for public comment. Could we do that quickly first, any public comment? Okay. No public comment. And otherwise, if it's okay then, I'd like to turn then to John Morton, I think, who I see on the screen. I think he's joined us. John Morton is Climate Counselor to the Treasury Secretary -- the first Climate Counselor to the Treasury Secretary that I'm aware of. And John has great insights. I've had some great discussions with him about the policy of the government and things we can do to help improve renewable energy projects in other places. John, if you'd join us, perhaps you'd make some remarks. MR. MORTON: Super. Can I confirm first that you can hear me? Jim, can you hear me? CHAIR O'BRIEN: We can. Thank you. MR. MORTON: Okay, wonderful. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thanks to you, Jim and to EXIM for the invitation to speak to the Advisory Committee. And I'm sorry, I wasn't able to join earlier parts of the -- of the conversation here today. I'm really glad to be here today to discuss opportunities for EXIM to enhance its support for renewable energy scale-up and deployment in Sub-Saharan African markets. Particularly as we look forward to the Africa COPP later this year in November in Egypt. And before discussing the significant opportunities in Sub-Saharan African markets, let me comment just for a moment on the importance of climate and considerations in EXIMs work writ large. I think from the perspective of this administration, we see as I know many of you do, the transition to a lower carbon and ultimately net zero global economy as representing one of perhaps the single greatest opportunities for bolstering American job growth, competitiveness, and innovation that arguably we have seen in a long time. And I think this administration has made it clear that it is firmly committed to using the many policy tools are our disposal to create good paying union jobs that both accelerate and benefit from the transition to a greener and cleaner economy. This is no longer an either/or situation. Where in the both/and situation where we can be competitiveness in low carbon economy -- where we can support low carbon economic growth. And it will be to the benefit of the American worker and the American -- and the American economy. As you've seen, this commitment demonstrated very concretely just last week when President Biden authorized the use of the Defense Production Act to accelerate domestic production of clean energy technologies, including solar panel parts. And this action responds to the urgent need to grow the domestic clean energy sector, which frankly provides direct opportunities for EXIM to expand exports for clean energy manufacturing including many of our Sub-Saharan Africa partners many of whom face significant and urgently rising energy access and security impediments and obstacles. EXIM obviously also plays a significant role in furthering the administrations climate commitments, which were notably made last -- at the last COPP in Glasgow where we collectively agreed as a number of countries to end public direct support for international unabated fossil fuel energy. And as many of you know, Treasury leads the U.S. negotiating delegation at the OECD to phase down and ultimately end export credit for unabated coal power technology. This broader effort has culminated in amendments to export credit guidelines to prohibit export financing for new unabated coal power generation technology. And now we're working quite closely with EXIM staff and leadership to formulate a policy response to an expected proposal from the EU later this year to further limit official financing across the fossil fuel energy sector. But with that as a chapeau, let me now talk about Sub-Saharan Africa. As this group knows probably better than just about any other group in Washington and around the world, rapid economic and population growth, alongside increased urbanization in African countries is inextricably linked to growing demand for reliable, affordable, and sustainable energy for cooking and heating, infrastructure in transportation. And according to the International Energy Agency or IEA, Sub-Saharan Africa stands to see the greatest increase in energy sector demand through 2040 compared to the rest of the continent and to the rest of the globe. The rapidly declining cost curves for key renewable energy technologies and battery storage will be critical to furthering reliable electricity and energy access on the African continent. And the continent's abundant renewable resources, especially solar and mineral resources make the market for renewable technologies, as well as the market for goods and services needed to modernize the region's energy infrastructure extremely attractive. And one in which U.S. exporters would be very -- would and will be very competitive if sufficiently enabled by EXIMs tools. And for this reason, EXIMs efforts to support U.S. exports for renewable energy deployment are crucial to ensuring that the U.S. reaps the economic opportunities embedded within Sub-Saharan Africa's rapid development and energy transition. And that U.S. manufacturers don't lose out to competitors that are very active in this region such as of course China. I note however that these efforts are not without challenges as EXIM navigates increasing debt risks in Sub-Saharan Africa. High pre-existing debt levels have been exacerbated by multiple overlapping shocks, including the COVID crisis, spillovers from Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, and increasingly frequent natural climate-related disasters. Despite these challenges, EXIM must be thinking deliberatively and strategically about how it can best leverage growing overseas markets for green technologies to foster American competitiveness and job growth. This is not just a matter of environmental stewardship, it is central to ensuring that U.S. manufacturers remain competitive in key emerging markets. Treasury is also engaging deeply in this conversation and work in the region, hopefully in future partnership with EXIM. In South Africa for example, Treasury leads the U.S. engagement in something called the Just Energy Transition Partnership or JETP, which is a plural lateral partnership launched at COP26 that seeks to aggregate development finance, philanthropic resources, and private finance in support of South Africa's ambition to accelerate the decommissioning of coal fire power plants while also expediting its investment in renewable energy and supporting an inclusive and equitable transition for impacted communities along the way. And we have been very pleased to engage EXIM in the early conversations around how EXIM can be involved in supporting this partnership. I'm very much looking forward to working with leadership on this issue in the months ahead. We do understand that Treasury that EXIM operates under certain constraints when it comes to phasing out fossil fuel financing. And from our perspective, we believe that these constraints are manageable. And that EXIM has tools, especially given statutorily mandated environmental safeguards that enable it to prioritize climate and environmental considerations in its financing decisions. And we also emphasize that it is important, if not critical, in light of this administration's focus on renewable energy as a job growth and as an innovation growth engine for U.S. industry and for the U.S. economy that EXIM be seen as a particularly strong contributor to this broader pool of government approach to addressing climate change. So in conclusion, earlier in my career, I grappled -- earlier in my government career I should say, I grappled with similar challenges at a peer institution. I had joined the Overseas Private Investment Corporation or OPIC in 2010 as the Vice President for Policy. And when we came in -- when I came in to that position, OPIC had done about $10 million worth of renewable energy deals the year before -- a very small number obviously by our standards -- collective standards. Three years later, we were doing over a billion dollars a year in renewable energy. And when you included energy plus water, agriculture and forestry, we were closer to $1.3 or $1.4 billion. That was about a third of our annual lending portfolio. And we had managed that transition in a very short period of time. And so while I understand that the reorientation of processes and priorities is not easy, I would emphasize that with the right focus and commitment from leadership and from the staff and from teams and advisory councils like yours, those commitments and those transitions can be made. And we now have economic financial tailwinds as opposed to the headwinds that we were confronting, I'd say 12 or 15 years ago as we began this transition. Now the economics work in our favor as opposed to in our face. So we are on a predictable and consequential path to a lower carbon and ultimately net zero global economy. The growing energy needs in the Sub-Saharan Africa must and will be increasingly filled by renewable energy, green technology solutions. And hopefully EXIM can support the fast growing U.S. industries and businesses and technologies and innovators and entrepreneurs that are driving this job growth domestically. And in furtherance, not just of U.S. jobs, but of the economic development and the green economic development that Africa so desperately deserves and wants. Thank you for your time. I appreciate the opportunity to speak here today. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Wonderful. Thank you, John. That was really helpful. And I'm glad you brought up the Just Energy Transition Partnership. That's something I know we wanted to touch on today and important area for us as we think about recommendations to help move that forward. I have just a couple concluding remarks, but we have a few minutes left and I'd like Chair Lewis since this may be the last meeting of this particular advisory committee for our term, perhaps you'd like to conclude it as well. CHAIR LEWIS: Just once again, just saying thank you. I know we're going to spend a little time over at lunch talking with the committee, but also with the advisory committee. I always appreciate Senator Heitkamp being with us and giving us her wise counsel. As I have listened not only today, but with the other advisory committee meetings that you've had, you've brought up some really important points. A lot of them goes to of course modernization of EXIM Bank. And we are working with our Policy Team on those as fast as we can. Making sure that we consult with the various stakeholders that EXIM has in order for us to do our work. I think what this committee will learn going forward is that the President is hosting the Summit of African leaders later this year after UNGA -- after the UN meeting in New York. We've already been asked to work towards how we can participate in that. And we're going to be doing a lot more work around that. I think it is those big broad meetings that say an administration has also forces agencies, especially like EXIM to put forth deliverables for the President. So it allows us maybe to speed up some things where things may have been just a little bit slow. When you're working with the White House and you've got a deadline date, that forces us to try to get some things done. Also many of you have brought up my comments about not only a whole of EXIM and a whole of government. And that's why we've been working very closely with our different agencies like the Millennial Challenge, The Development Corporation, our Trade Development Agency, USTR, and the Department of Commerce. We really view working with all of those different agencies will allow EXIM to be a little bit more forceful, a little bit more aggressive as we try to make sure as the Senator said, have a strong voice at the table as we work to bring our agency back to being one of the strongest ECAs in the world. You brought up a number of issues around what Africa -- what Africa customers need. And in our meetings, we're hearing as I said directly from the sovereigns, but it's also interesting to hear each of you talk from your vantage point about the things that EXIM will definitely be taking into consideration when we do our due diligence on the different projects that come before us. One of the things that I keep telling everyone is that we do not have to wait for the big iconic projects. In the long-term projects, there is so much that needs to be done on the continent. And one of course is working with small and medium size enterprises cause that goes really to the heart and life blood of not only America's economy in terms of working with small business, but also to the economies of working in those countries. And that's one of the reasons why we're going to be -- we have already begun to work with the diaspora communities here in the United States because we understand the relationships that they have. We understand the types of companies that they are -- the companies that they are trying to get funding. We understand that in working with those particular diaspora communities, those businesses tend to have, you know, to grow faster, employ more people, and have an ability to weather a lot more storms. I think the question that someone brought up about regional projects is definitely one that has come to our attention, primarily from some of the African ECAs and from also the private sectors. So I do believe there's a major component around public/private partnership. And you're going to continue to see EXIM work with our private sector -- our private sector partners. We know we cannot do it alone. This is not a go alone strategy that EXIM Bank can have. We're going to have to be able to bring all of the forces of government in our private sector together if we want to win and beat the competition. So just again, thank you for all of your work and participation. And to know full well, we appreciate the recommendations that the committee is offering us. And rest assured, Senator, we won't just be keeping it on the shelf. CHAIR O'BRIEN: Thank you so much, Chair Lewis. What a wonderful way to conclude. I might just add if I could because this could well be our -- I think our last public meeting. And I know we've got a recommendation letter to put together, but I want to thank all of you personally. It's been just a privilege to Chair this Committee. I think it's a group of really engaged and concerned folks who really focused on the issues that are important that we can bring the right recommendations to EXIM. And when we put the renewable energy letter together with the recommendations that the Committee made around President Biden's Build Back Better World agenda and also strategic minerals and materials -- and you put that together with this recommendation letter, I think you can all be proud of the great work that you did this year. It really -- when I think of the first time that we spent time together personally on the phone talking about the things that you cared about and what we wanted to make sure we got accomplished this year, I'd like to be able to say that as you think back to those discussions, I hope you think that we've done those things that were important and matter to you and certainly to me. So again, such a pleasure and a privilege and thank you very much. With that, I think we're adjourned. (Whereupon, the aboveentitled matter went off the record at 12:02 p.m.) 1